Madiator's CornerGoogle is Killing Open Source Android Apps (Here's Why)
ExtremeDullardtechlore.tv/videos/watch/293072ca-75b6-42aa-8e5…
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ArghblargI read somewhere that GrapheneOS devs have a strategy which they believe will work -- they strip out something or other about app/device attestation (?) from APK files before installing occurs, or the enforcement code itself from their spin of the OS, so sideloading (ie., user-controlled installation) can still work.
I sure hope so... I think everyone in their respective country needs to scream at their local regulators about this.
Of course, this will only help those whose devices GrapheneOS can run on.
other8026Google has already shared how apps' developers will be verified. They're adding another app that will have access to block installing apps or disable them. That won't work on GrapheneOS because 1. the app won't be installed and 2. the app won't have that kind of privileged access.
I think the issue is new hardware and google starting to close source android, so that Graphene devs don't have the open source to work with. They'll probably get binary blobs
It's my understanding that the changes that were made didn't make things more or less proprietary. Some drivers are still open source, others are still closed source. The device trees mostly have other things in them like configuration files and stuff like that.
Soooo we just block that app, right?
It just won't work on GrapheneOS. Not sure if disabling it will work on the stock OS. We will have to wait and see on that one.
And how long is it going to work?
Do we really want to play cat and mouse with Google? I don't.
The way Google will block apps with unverified developers won't work on GrapheneOS. The change won't be part of AOSP. On the stock OS, the functionality will be handled by another Google app that has privileged access. GrapheneOS won't be affected directly.
I hope so as well. This debacle with RCS not working on GrapheneOS has been a real dick-punch. I really don't want to go back to a stock OS.
I thought the RCS thing was also happening on stock Android? Wasn't it more of a carrier thing?
It's been largely fixed for stock with select regions still being affected. RCS is failing on GOS because the correct device ID isn't getting reported and the verification services won't authenticate the OS.
It'll work for about 24 hours, give or take, from a fresh installation, but after that RCS dies and no longer works. Any groups you were in will see you as departed and you will lose any future messages to that group.
It's pretty fucked.
Thanks, I had no idea of the severity. I wonder if they'll be able to fix it.
I convinced my fiance to switch over to GOS because I've had moderate success with it for about a year now. So of course this happens as soon as she made the switch. Now she's talking about getting an iPhone.
Ain't that how it always goes? Best I could do with mine was to get her to use Signal. Better than nothing, I guess.
It's my understanding that RCS was fixed for most users after this update: https://grapheneos.org/releases#2025092700. You may need to grant permissions to Google Play Services first, then clear Google Messages' storage, grant permissions to Google Messages, then try setting it up again.
It was not. I have been on the Discord #Testing channel working with others to troubleshoot. Those steps do not work.
It seemed to be fixed on the 20251003 release, a lot of people got it working for a while, including me. It died within 24 hours.
I said "most users". There are some who are still experiencing issues, which is being looked into. Other people have had issues that were fixed by clearing the storage for Google Play, Google Play Services, Google Messages, then granting all necessary permissions before launching Google Messages again.
rhythmisaprancerI have accepted no RCS. I miss some of the features, sure, but until I can get more than one person to use something like signal I'll stick with insecure SMS thru a FOSS provider I guess.
I have like 40 people on Signal and regularly chat with a dozen of them there. Some people see the benefits, others don't. I am lucky.
That sounds great! So far, after five years, I have won a single person. Even back when Signal worked as a more regular messenger. Happy for you 🙂
Hopefully we can all get more people on it. I adopted Signal almost ten years ago, so that helped. Keep spreading the word and it'll grow.
Thanks for the encouragement! The one person is a key player in that network so maybe! Hard to fight with the apple folks.
bthestShouldn't they be keeping bypass strategies a secret right now?
Shouldn’t they be keeping bypass strategies a secret right now?
They're up against a company with more money and developers than they know what to do with. This is, at most, a game of cat and mouse. Secrecy will buy them a sprint or so.
If Google wants to go nuclear, they can do some rolling encryption bullshit or put a million calls all over the OS to check app validity and stop open source altogether.
This will face legal hurdles, especially in the EU and China. It reminds me of the time Microsoft played shell games with Chrome and Firefox and then lost eventually. That being said, it will kickstart a new mobile OS arms race, not necessarily to beat Android but for choices.
ISOmorphThis will definitely not be challenged in the EU. It's the whole basis that makes chat control possible on a technical level.
The markets authority and antitrust offices are different people than the chat control people, they aren't a unified organisation, they will probably argue about it.
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... except for the binary os blobs, that'll need to be reverse engineered to run it on... well... any real hardware /s
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As far as I understood from Graphene, when Google released the source code for Android 16, they also stripped all the reference code for Pixel devices.
Historically, Google would ship the code for Pixel and a software emulator as "reference designs". Now, it's only shipped with the emulator.
The Graphene Team needed to reconstruct the pixel code from the Android 15 release. Fortunately, the divergence between Android 15 and 16 was minimal, but I'm certain the division will widen as time goes by.
JBrickelt963Above all, the organisation behind it must be or become sufficiently robust, like GNU/Linux, in order to take up the torch, but that requires a lot of financial backing.
It's not impossible, but in my opinion it won't happen right away and is likely to take time to implement. Once that's done, the only issue left will be installation (for users, that is).
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That was a possibility, but if I'm not mistaken, it was either Chrome or Android.
And it seems to me that an agreement was reached on Chrome (but no sale planned). So I won't make any predictions. Especially when you see the lockdown on Android, something is brewing, and Google wouldn't allow that if it had to part with it.
Unless they are preparing for the separation by establishing as much interdependence as possible between the two in case of a takeover by another company with a partnership. Because otherwise, the community will know how to unravel and clean up the Android project.
EDIT:
If anything, I've just looked into it and it seems to be stronger than ever after this antitrust ruling. Because what you heard was more what the Ministry was asking the judge to do.
In the end, there will be no dismantling of Android or Chrome, no loss of revenue for "partners" such as Firefox.
There is an end to exclusive contracts, notably to prevent it from imposing Gemini or Chrome, but ONLY for one year. There is also data sharing, particularly related to parts of its search index, but no total obligation and nothing on advertising data, only interactions as a supplement.
It's as if it were letting its competitors take a look at its library without giving them the keys to the safe.
And to top it all off, it seems that Google is preparing a gradual merger of Chrome OS and Android for "greater hegemony". If anything, I've just looked and it seems to be stronger than ever after this antitrust decision. Because what you heard was more what the ministry was asking the judge.
In the end, there will be no dismantling of Android or Chrome, no loss of revenue for "partners" such as Firefox.
There is an end to exclusive contracts, in particular to prevent it from imposing Gemini or Chrome, but ONLY for one year. There will also be data sharing, particularly related to parts of its index, but no total obligation and nothing on advertising data, only interactions.
Here are my sources in French:
sigh and here I was looking forward to switching back to Android since I missed being able to install APKS...
shortwavesurfer
FlaxCouldn't f droid in theory request their own key?
This is a terrible situation, but surviving for a few more years isn't a bad idea
The f-droid team spoke to that in a recent post. They can't do that for legal reasons. The post basically said that if that change isn't stopped on a government level there's no way for them to continue working. They didn't mention roms.
Edit for the link: https://f-droid.org/en/2025/09/29/google-developer-registration-decree.html
Here's the relevant quote:
The F-Droid project cannot require that developers register their apps through Google, but at the same time, we cannot “take over” the application identifiers for the open-source apps we distribute, as that would effectively seize exclusive distribution rights to those applications.
I think that last sentence is saying that it would work, if developers decided to exclusively distribute to F-Droid and effectively gave up control over the app to the F-Droid team.
I'm thinking there might be a possibility to register the same app under two different identifiers, one controlled by F-Droid, the other by developer.
But yeah, this makes some things more complex and might be deemed malicious behaviour by Google.
Because Google is an evil empire that is governed by money, and opensource can't be monetized for advertisements.
It can!
That's what Google did with Android: Google literally made a free open-source operating system everybody could copy, use and develop for for free, to create a wildly successful ecosystem.
Once the ecosystem was fully developed, slowly, year after year, Google moved features out of the open-source AOSP project and into their proprietary stack. Look at AOSP now: it's a shadow of its former self.
And now they're killing off AOSP and AOSP-derivatives and turning Android into their own Apple-style walled garden.
I'd say Google very successfully used open-source to its advantage. Google sure knows how to play the long game.
Not really, the part Google makes money on is Google apps, and that's all proprietary.
If you use AOSP without Google Apps, Google isn't making any money on it. Just like they aren't making money on f-droid.
I rest my case.
Don't even need to watch the video to know the reason. It's because they are greedy cunts.
Can't have people using tech to expose and fight back against ICE and genocide.